In today’s episode, Chad sits down with Angela Stoyanovitch, a director of business development at BioAgilytix and founder of the Legal Drugs podcast. She’s a podcaster, veteran business developer, social media strategist and consultant who kicked off her career in research who has held business development roles across pre-clinical research, bioanalysis and in basic research. They discuss how she fell in love with the service side of research and her advice for others interested the drug industry.

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Molecular Moments Episode 7: Angela Stoyanovitch Talks Detroit Pride, Legal Drugs, and the Google of CROs!: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Molecular Moments Episode 7: Angela Stoyanovitch Talks Detroit Pride, Legal Drugs, and the Google of CROs!: this mp4 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Announcer:
Welcome to the Molecular Moments podcast.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
In today's episode, we sat down with our guest, Angela Stojanovic, director of business development at biogenetics and founder of Legal Drugs Agency. Angela is a veteran business developer, podcasters, social media strategist and consultant. She's been a researcher and held business development roles across preclinical bio analysis and in basic research. Or as she puts it, she's an innovative digital drug development tour guide. I love that. I first came to know Angela and her podcast and later was fortunate to find myself interviewing her for a position in business development with biogenetics. She's full of infectious energy and I hope you'll enjoy our conversation as much as I did. We were talking science as scientists do. So without further ado, here is the seventh episode of Molecular Moments. Welcome to the podcast, Angela, I'm delighted to have you join me today. Can we just start with you? Give me a few highlights from your career.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Sure. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Chad. I was so excited to be invited and I would love to to tell parts of my story. And I hope our audience will will find something interesting and something of value. So I would say the highlights of my career started with a question, and that question was based in curiosity, which really drove me to study science in the first place. I was an undergraduate at a liberal arts college where my professor and I were studying endogenous peptides. So we were looking at different activity in the brain with hormones and behavior and trying to understand how we could kind of tease some of these things apart to eventually maybe turn into a drug. In fact, even a drug that could replace Viagra, for example, which many know was not even meant to be used in the purpose that it later was used for. So, again, hormones and behavior are looking at activity in the brain. I was working under the mentorship of a neuro endocrinologist and he told me that it could take 10 to 20 years to get anything that we were studying to market within the pharmaceutical industry. I was studying biology and neuroscience as an undergraduate there, and I remember that moment so many times throughout my career and it sort of drove my entire pathway, if you will. So later, when I decided to you know, I graduated and wanted to get a job, I thought, I don't necessarily want to be in school forever.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
So where can I go and work and learn more about science? I'm obsessed with this. I had published my research all through undergraduate had funding, but earning a PhD wasn't necessarily the track that I wanted to take. And a lot of times when you're in academia, it's not clear what other direction you can take in the more commercial or industry side of research. But I had another professor who gave me advice and she said, hey, a few of the students here have gone down about an hour south of here to work for this preclinical company, which was a contract research organization, or S.R.O. And they did a lot of animal research. And of course, I loved animals and I had worked at an animal hospital in high school and was doing animal research with rats. So I thought, I'll apply. And of course I did. And I worked there for three years. And that company was later bought by Charles River Laboratories, one of the largest contract research organisations in the world to this day that focuses on preclinical research. But at that time, it was my research and they had been around around a lot of the old Pfizer blood in the state of Michigan, which I know we have some connections and ties to Michigan.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
And my brother I don't know if I mentioned this to you before, my brother actually worked for NPI probably. Well, I don't know. You didn't tell me that.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Two to 2002 to something like that. Oh, my goodness. Four, three, three or four years.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
So, yeah, when you have roots in Michigan, especially with like Upjohn Pharmacy, Pfizer, you know, that NPI connection, it doesn't surprise me if you're from Michigan. But no, you didn't tell me that. And that's really cool. So I did that. I worked there. And, you know, one of the things that was cool about that is that I really got exposure to regulated research, which you have no clue about in in academia.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Right. But I did do that and I really fell in love with the relationships with our sponsors. So on the S.R.O. side of this business and I've heard you talk about it on the podcast here, you know, you don't necessarily know all of the steps involved in drug development, but you do see a piece of that and you do know how important getting really high quality data is for that sponsor. And so I sort of fell in love with the service industry side of this business. Right, with the service industry side of drug development, if you will. And I wanted to know more about these sponsors and I wanted to build better relationships. And so I started like building, I'll say more of a brand or a name for myself through volunteering, getting involved in different organizations. And eventually I was hired by Charles River, who is sort of the big brother of the industry in that area of, I guess you could say, preclinical research and worked six years as a sales rep and then got involved in deeper drug development, business development through a smaller nonprofit company called Southern Research Institute in the South, covered most of the East Coast, doing sales for them and trying to bring on commercial business and really got exposure to really cool stuff like immunotherapies, you know, until therapies. And it was at an immunogenicity conference that I met some of the folks from. Analytics, about three years ago, where I was really intrigued with the, I guess, image that Bioaccumulate put out, and so therefore kind of started knocking the door down and I'm looking to get in and looking to get a job. And of course, I've skipped over some of my ventures, but I know we'll get there. So that's that's kind of the overall scope of how I've come here.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Well, I can't help but start with diving in just a little bit on you being from Detroit and going to a middle school.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I went to my college. You went to Hope College. So put a put a plug in for that. Yes. You know, I'm not sure even what I'm asking you here on and being from Detroit, but Detroit is beat up a lot, right? If you tell people you're from Detroit, they don't go, oh, lucky you. I feel fortunate to have been born and spent a lot of my childhood in and around the Detroit area. So how how is, you know, being from Detroit? How did that change you affect affect who you are, do you think?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
I mean, it's funny that you posed the question that way, because to me, being from Detroit is everything. And maybe it's because Detroit is so beat up that I draw so many life lessons from it. But I would say, you know, I grew up sort of middle class. My dad worked for General Motors and the automotive industry, like everybody, you know, who grows up, their parents do. My mother was a house cleaner and I was homeschooled most of high school, most of my life actually up until the last two years of high school. My experience was, I mean, one hundred percent, the stereotypical like kind of Detroit metro Detroit experience, except that because I was home schooled and kind of like spent a lot of time in the city doing volunteer work like Habitat for Humanity and raising money enough so that we could take a month long trip to Europe or, you know, volunteer at the soup kitchen. It gave me such a large world view. And I think it really opened up the curiosity that eventually turned me into a scientist, you know, young investigator. And of course, you already know the rest of the story. So Detroit has a bad rep. Yes, I actually still own a house there. It's my pride and joy. I think it gave me a great sense of city grit. I think it gave me a sense of how to deal with people at every level of life. And I think that's a life skill that really only Detroiters can sometimes know. Not that you can't learn in other ways, but it's sort of like a rapid fire way through sort of what I call Third World City.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if you if you grow up a Lions fan, you certainly learn a lot of grit, right?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Well, I won't I won't tell you then that I lived four blocks from the stadium and never went to a game. But yeah, I understand we're supposed to be very hard core fans there. I just never got into it. I was there too many coffee shops, you know, drinking, drinking, you know, what do they call the flat whites in European wannabes, right? Yeah, you bet.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
So the other point I mentioned that we kind of have in common before we really intersected here at biogenetics was going to a school. And I do want to, again, put a plug in because for the small colleges and whatnot, I also had a really wonderful opportunity to do undergraduate research that was actually meaningful and impactful on myself. And what I learned. And I and I led my own research. Right. I didn't have a grad student above me supervising that. So you clearly did some great research that really influenced what you're able to do. So my kids are all going to small schools.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Well, I mean, I think that it's more of a comment than a question of what the liberal arts, you know, school environment can provide.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And why are you sending your kids to that smaller school? Well, because they can get more handholding. And who else did you know? I mean, I didn't know anybody from my home school friends to my private school, to my public school friends from Detroit metro Detroit area, which is millions and millions of people in that region who were going to the University of Michigan, for example, and doing brain surgery on rats. I mean, who is doing that? Who is publishing like that? So I think that's what you got it. OLMA Albian Kalvin, hope all these schools that you and I know so well in that area.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And and I think that also I know you're very passionate about mentorship and mentorship is something that is almost guaranteed when you go to a school of that size and hope, frankly, when we did research my my parents and I, I mean, I was very lucky and had a trust fund for my great grandfather, who I always tell this story was one of Henry Ford's apple orchard managers during the Depression. So I had a real, real blessed opportunity to kind of pick any school I wanted. And hope was fourth in the nation for undergraduate research at that time, according to US World Report.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
So I'm like, let's do it right. How else would you have that kind of hands on experience? And they also have. Welcomed me back, tried to even go back and speak to students to talk about alternatives.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
I mean, I came up with this cheeky name for myself, like you said, the digital drug development tour guide. And I have students call me, hit me up on LinkedIn. I've even had a friend recently from Big Pharma who asked me to come and give a talk to a group of students who are in reproductive toxicology. I don't know anything about reproductive toxicology, but what he's trying to do is take myself and others on this panel to discuss alternatives to the academic role that everybody feels their defaulted to. And it's just not true. There's so much opportunity in this incredible and robust industry. And I think that's what liberal arts can kind of open up for, for us in our minds.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
My son is facing this question right now, but I can imagine a student asking you or Angela, you ended up doing sales here. You did this research, your passion about science, how are you in sales? And my son is actually a senior right now graduating and he's trying to make that same decision. So what advice would you give him or what have you given other other students when you talk to him?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Well, I think I resisted sales for a long time. I think I thought as a 20 something year old that sales was the used car sales guy that was just pushing you to buy something. And as I fell in love with science, with life sciences and with in particular what it takes to get a drug to market the legal way or like what I like to call legal drugs. Right. That whole, you know, mode of curiosity, I think really pushed me to realize that when you work in a sales environment or in a sales role of any capacity, whether you're an account manager or an executive, as a business developer, you know, you really are connecting dots for people. So if you love resources and if you love, you know, the big picture, then sales actually can make a lot of sense. Of course, you know, you need to be a decent communicator. But I think what's even more important is listening and learning from other experts within the industry. I learned so much from my clients and I always have. And I think if I were to go back to school and earn a PhD, which I'm open to, I would lose that touch. I would lose that big picture. And I think being in a sales environment, you know, you're able to not only be of service to people, but you're also able to see so much that the industry is doing to evolve and to change and to get cures and therapies to patients faster, sooner or better. And I think that's what really has driven my sales career.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
You know, likewise, I resisted sales longer than you did. As you know, I just recently moved into a role. And yes, I was so excited. Yeah, I'm excited about it. I resisted it for almost twenty five years of my career, but here I am and it's awesome.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
So in the sales field, you're still clearly very passionate about research and about different areas. Tell me just when you really want to nerd out and you want to search, I wonder how this works and that works. What are you looking at? What's the science that really gets your juices flowing?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Well, you know, I can't help but to tell a story here. And I think it's part of our mutual passion in loving podcasting. I mean, podcasting is the audio version of storytelling, and storytelling is one of the oldest, I guess, parts of humanity and society that we can know of. Right. This oral history. Right. And what I think about my life on the road as a sales rep, particularly for the last two companies that I represented, you know, flying all over the Midwest or all over the Southeast or, you know, mid-Atlantic coast, I had some of the most amazing conversations, not only with my clients, whom I love and adore and love to support and learn so much from, and and try to also teach what I know and how I can help. But with strangers and complete strangers on the planes, trains, taxis, people next to me. Right. And when I was able to nerd out, as you say, and explain to them what I did for a living and vice versa, that may explain what they do. I think that's when you really start to understand the importance of why we do what we do. I mean, you know, everybody is, I guess, guilty of getting into the details of their work. But when you can really understand the impact of what drug development can have on our day to day lives, which is kind of the introduction to my podcast, you know, it really does impact our day to day lives and be able to explain that in layman's terms. That is truly my passion, Chad. And I want to continue to understand as much as I can about drug development and what this industry offers society throughout my life that is truly my driving force. And I think that's what I nerd out about the most, is like communicating science to my mother, my cousin, my neighbor, and explain even things, especially now since covid where people are so much more interested in what we do than ever before because they see the impact of what one small, tiny little virus can.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Do to completely change our lives, and now they're saying, Angela, Angela, what is this and what is that? And I have girlfriends calling me and friends calling me and family calling me saying, you know, should I be afraid? Should I not be afraid? When's the vaccine coming out? You know what I'm saying? So it's like, ha, I knew that this was relevant to our day to day lives. And that's why I think when I was in a place where I really needed a creative outlet and I was privy to these incredible scientific conversations, the idea hit me that I want to be able to take what we're doing and anything that I can say that's not confidential, that won't offend anybody, that doesn't cross a line and doesn't give out proprietary information.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
I want everyday people to have access to this behind the scenes mysterious industry, a pharmaceutical drug development. And I think that really is, again, to answer your question, like the kinds of things that I nerd out on.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, I love that. It's about bringing solutions. That's what I've been doing for quite a few years. Whether it's from the scientific side or from managing operations or sales, it really is about bringing solutions when you're in the service industry, it's about bringing solutions to these companies who are developing the lifesaving therapies and what an opportunity to be involved in so much of that.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
So I do want to talk about podcasting, my my fellow podcast or biogenetics.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I want to start with saying I think the name for your podcast is brilliant. And I don't know if you've heard feedback the way I'm going to give it to you, but it makes me think such a simple name, legal drugs. And it makes me think it makes me think about a lot of different things. First of all, you see it here like legal or illegal.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yes. Right. And ethically legal drugs. Is this a podcast about cannabis? I don't know if you've heard that one, but. But it's still. Yeah, yeah. OK, so, you know, I I've heard everything.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
I've heard so much from people that I love and respect and mentors. I mean, they have just questioned the name and there are people who get it and there are people who don't. I think most people get it. I think most people understand that the name Legal Drugs podcast is trying to tear and tease apart what makes a drug legal or not. Right. I mean, we all know there's illegal drugs. I mean, I have personal stories in my family where, like I sang at my uncle's funeral at 14 years of age because he overdosed on heroin in the streets of Detroit. I mean, let's go back to Detroit again. Right. You talk about that grit, but I have the blessed opportunity of bringing solutions to fight against the opioid epidemic. Right. To look for anti addictive painkiller drugs as a solution to this problem that the pharmaceutical, in a sense, created or at least the malpractice of that. Right. And also people's personal responsibility. When I put legal drugs, I want people to stop and think, just like you said, to say. Now, wait a second, do I absolutely need this aspirin or am I just putting more wear and tear on my organs that I don't need? Maybe I'm just dehydrated. So it's to kind of take a balanced approach to look at, like the holistic side of what we're doing and not so heavily rely on, oh, I can eat McDonald's every day. And then when I'm sick and inflamed and have disease, I'll just rely on the pharmaceutical industry for my solution. It shouldn't work like that either. So I think it also is pointing to our personal responsibility, along with the incredible life saving, a life changing solutions we do bring to the table.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, well, it's a cool platform and I kind of said it, but I like the name lidded drugs because it does make me think every time, every time I read a book, it's so simple, but it makes me think so. That's so brilliant. Thank you.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I think having a platform nowadays is so cool and with and that's one of the great things about the Internet and social media and all that. One of my mentors, once we were planning a conference, oh, eight, ten years ago, I actually chaired the meeting and he said, Chad, if you make this conference something that you're passionate about and that you will be interested in, bring speakers you like and themes you like, other people are going to be interested in that as well. And, you know, we did the conference. It was a great success and got lots of, you know, lots of good feedback. And it really was it was the conference that I wanted right in. And I think that's what's so cool about having that platform. So is there one or two give you a chance to plug legal drugs a little bit more? But is there one or two episodes of of like, cool, I want to listen to that. Which which one should we listen to? Is it one or two episodes you might point people to to to get hooked. Yeah.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Yeah, sure. I'm so I think, you know, I've heard you ask your guest on the show here, molecular moments, what kind of personal touch this industry brings to you.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
You know, the sort of teary eyed moment, the thing that kind of drives you. And I would say for me, that's been a component of illegal drugs show, you know, that has been pivotal for me and almost unexpected. I ask almost every single one of my guest, you know, why is this work important to you? And almost every single one of them have. Brought up, you know, someone who's passed away or someone who's been, you know, saved by or whatever the case, my story is definitely with my father.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
My father's appeared on my show twice, episodes three and 30, and he has had so he survived three massive heart attacks. And it's really only because of the statins and stents that he's been able to, of course, take advantage of from our industry that have kept him alive. So, of course, I'm grateful to that.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And I've also, you know, I think going back to my time at NPI when I was working as a technician, was in those surgical suites doing some of those safety tests on those stents in pigs. And so it's very, very personal to me. And up until I had one of the actually Netflix stars from a company called Distributed Bio who is actually just purchased by one of my former employers as well, Charles River, there was just a huge announcement. Their stocks went way up. But Sarah Ives, she's incredible. And she came on the show and of course, they had like seven, eight million views on their docu series on Netflix called A Pandemic. So up until I had Sarah Ives on the show, my dad's episodes were probably the most downloaded. So probably those two episodes, three, 30, and I think hers is twenty or twenty three, something like that. So I'd have to look it up.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, because I'm kind of overloaded with the podcast right now and it's sort of, you know, like I said, I listened years before I knew you and then I listened to a couple of episodes leading up to this and it's now in my regular turn. So I'm looking forward to. Oh, thank you.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Looking forward to keeping up. What are a couple of your favorite other podcasts, you know, about science or anything or life or the or what's in your regular playlist, if you will?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Well, you know, it's funny because at the time I started the podcast, I really was not a podcast or I didn't really listen to podcast. And I went around to I think I was at ACR and I was asking people about podcast in the industry.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And they told me about two scientists walk into a bar by Genentech at the Genentech produced that one of the first. They have several hundred episodes now. I also went to a bio buzz event in Maryland, a networking event, and the guys there told me that Rich, who's kind of a well known angel investor, started biotech. So I started listening to his in fact, I kind of stole a couple of his guests who are just phenomenal, like Jeff Galván for American Gene Technologies explains what he's doing with HIV in just such an easily digestible way that he can even speak to kids. And it just makes so much sense.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
So, I mean, I think podcasting is so powerful. And a few years ago, there weren't so many. But now and even when I was pitching my idea at JPMorgan actually a couple of years ago to possible sponsors for my show, and they were looking at me like a podcast, what you know, like some of these guys were just I don't know if it was an age thing or if they just hadn't hit it yet. And even I wasn't listening to podcast. But now, like, everybody has a podcast. And so those were the first few, I think the long run to with Luke Timmerman.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
He does a phenomenal job. The bio report lab rat. Chad, I've been a guest on three minute three hours Mendel's pod, and I'm missing my favorite one by stat news. I can't think of what it's called, but these are all great episodes that kind of give you a diversity of, you know, preclinical to clinical and product gossip in the industry. I mean, you name it. So I think there's a lot out there now that we can kind of tune into and turn on to, even if we're not driving and community to work anymore, but maybe just washing the dishes to just keep in tune, especially now that we're all working remotely. I think it's even more important.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Let's talk about biogenetics a little bit. So typically, I keep molecular moments, not not very commercial. Right. I'm very fortunate. Bioengineering sponsors me, it produces it and all that. But usually we don't talk as much about biogenetics as we're going to today. But you had a bit of a journey joining biogenetics. Sometimes that's how it goes. Right. But tell me you touched on it. But tell me in a little bit more depth what you find special about biogenetics and you know, what motivates why did you want to join this company so badly?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Well, I think that it'll be really easy to do at this point because I've said a lot. And I think one of the things that I said was that by agility at an immunogenicity conference that I was attending as well, sort of gave this personality of a West Coast company. You know, I went out to dinner with one of our benchtop scientist and she said to me that she rode her bike into work into Durham, North Carolina. And of course, Durham actually reminds me a lot of Detroit with a lot of the underground art and, you know, good eateries and stuff. So I just thought, gosh, what a cool feeling to have a contract research organization, not even a biotech that's working with biotechs that once the biotechs to feel welcomed and included and feel at home. And that was the sort of the personality of the folks I met at that show. And one of our reps, actually, Daniel Cohen and I kind of stayed in touch and we were talking about going to launch bio events. Also, a networking event taking place in Durham and just talking about clients who are developing large molecules and hey, you should go to this, let's do this. Let's try to collaborate. And I think like that meant so much to me at that time because you and I both know there's a lot of commodity businesses out here and there's nothing wrong with that. And we need that. And it all helps in the big picture.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
But for me, as someone who is really needing, again, that creative outlet and I hadn't even started my podcast, I left my former employer and then started right around the same time, something that I had been thinking about for over a year, launched my company, launched my podcast and just said, let me just go for it. Flew to San Francisco, went to JP Morgan Biotech two years in a row and just kept meeting so many incredible people. But I think I just kept biotech politics in the back of my head. And it was actually a recruiter that first officially introduced me, stayed in touch with our founder. I stayed in touch with Daniel, of course, Beth. I met our CEO recently and just really vibe with him really felt like, hey, there might be some synergy for me. What was really, really important is that everything that I had worked for in earning the attention, let's say, and building this following for my show, both within our industry, for the insiders and the outsiders, if you will, thousands of downloads, multiple countries looking at the episodes. You know, I didn't want to I didn't want that to be looked at as a competition or a conflict of interest. I wanted whoever I represented to see that as an advantage, as a jump off point, to take advantage of, if you will, so that when I came out and said, hey, I am so proud to represent the progressive, innovative and expert science services about agility, that it had some weight, that it meant something, that I wasn't just going and willing to represent any company.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And I feel that with everything that biogenetics has done from starting as a biomarker company to really having full, you know, large molecule about analytical services, that we do that. And of course, I'm only in my first month, so I have a lot to learn to represent us. But I think I've done enough due diligence to know that this is really a great workplace. And I think that already, the way I've seen us handle client calls, triaging of client projects, the transparency, the honesty, the values that I see from our leadership, it's incredible. I mean, just something as simple as being honest about lead times where, you know, it's very easy for us to say, oh, we'll get your project and we'll get your project in. And the clients waiting, you know, nine months later for their data to come back. The project still sitting on the shelf. Right. And the bench work not even started. So I think that's the kind of thing that our clients need in order to have success, to present their data to the FDA. And I think that's the kind of really organization that we are, not to mention we're focused on large molecule and that's the future cures and therapies are the future of legal drugs.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, without a doubt. And by the time your episode comes out, the previous episode that I recorded talking a lot about gene therapy with Laura Seppala and Zino Sisodia, I wouldn't tell you that that episode will be out and I'd refer people back to that. I think, as I told you, that was when one of my favorites ever recorded so far, because while the insights she shared about gene therapies and where that's going to go and I mean, it's so next level, right? I mean, it's not just an evolution at that point. I mean, we're making a huge leap to single I'll call it a dose. It's kind of a dose, but a single dose cure. Right. And really going to the cure. It's so it's really exciting. So if you had a conversation with a candidate that was considering, how should I take that job of biogenetics? You know, what would you tell them? You know, like in the elevator pitch, 20, 30 words about why they should jump at it.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Like I said, I think ride the wave of what is the future, what's already here to stay? I mean, we know that large molecules are the way for so many diseases that we've been unable to cure. I think by electrolytic, again, offers that sort of West Coast personality company, that environment that we all want, like this sort of Google of the Crows. I mean, that's that's how I saw it. And that's how I still see it. And I think it was worth the almost three year wait in two and a half interviews. I think I say that I went through to finally get let in, but it really was worth it because I, I think that if you're looking at biogenetics and you want to represent sort of the who's who of the contract research organisations, particularly for large molecule development there, really, I don't know that there's any other place to look. I know there's companies that are trying, oh, we need every player at the table. I will say that we need everybody trying. But I really believe in the folks who lead us and who have founded us. And I think I have great mentors and managers already that are just showing their support. So I don't think you could go wrong in pursuing a career with us. And I know that we're growing. I know that we're investing. I know that some of my investor friends have called me up, Hadi.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Need more money, what's going on right now, and I'm like, I don't I don't know, I just started. But I mean, I think that this is just such a fun place to work. You can be a nerd here and not feel like you're being too much.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And I know that I'm incredibly energetic, as you said, and very passionate about this industry. I've never been made to feel like I need to sit down and be quiet and lose my voice. And so if you're somebody who nerds out as much as I do about what it takes to get a drug to market, I think you could easily be here to help support clients who are doing some really cool work.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah. And I think, as you know, because Cotton has your inside sales business development associate that supports you, you know, I've known Chris for a long, long time. And what I told him is, you know, biogenetics is a fantastic place to work. The transparency, the all the good, all the good things. You talked about, Angela, but it also sets a really high bar. Right. And that's something that we all feel. But when you have such a supportive environment that we have from Jim Dayton and even the board of directors who I've had the opportunity to interact with, you know, a number of times in different in different ways. In fact, Mike Mortimer from our board of directors, all of my guests, and that support all the way down is amazing. And I think it really does create that environment that you're talking about.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Yeah, and I agree with you. I've said that to some of our business development associates as well. When I've introduced myself, like, you don't know how lucky you are to be here. The environment is so is so ripe. And I know what it's like to be in an organization where there is no leadership or vision, I should say, or where the turnover of leadership is just so high that you can't grasp it when it is.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And I've also worked for companies that have great leadership but are so large that you get lost. And I think we kind of at this point have sort of the perfect, sweet spot to be developed. I think that's the key to to why anybody would want to pursue a career with us.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Clearly, we both drank the biogenetics Kool-Aid, right. It's a it's called being a galloping unashamed. Yeah, me too. Me too. My wife my wife gives me a hard time about it about every week. She's like more about Bayway, Jellinek. But she's she's happy certainly that I'm happy. But as you mentioned, I love talking about mentorship.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I love to be a mentor. Please, you know, reach out to me. We can mentor each other and podcasting. I'd love to help you in your transition into biogenetics. So I'm there for you. Tell me about your experience as a mentor and mentoring people a little bit. A little bit deeper.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Yeah, sure. I mean, I, like many of your guests, have said and I think our own one of our chief scientific officers, Jim McNally, who you interviewed, I think on the first episode. Yeah. I mean, he talked about how there's sort of this feeling of obligation. You know, I love I love sharing my age because I know that when I was in my twenties, I was always trying to figure out how old people were, especially women. And so I'm thirty four years old and very proud of it. I say it all the time. Every year I age another another year. And you know where I see myself at 40 and at 50 and at 60. I didn't know any other thirty year old consultants. Right. So what I had to do is I had to look to the 60 year old women in my life who were really powerful, maybe even PhD leaders in this industry.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
You know, women like Dr. Cindy Buckmaster, Dr Tina Rogers that I had been watching on stage in other instances, either at conferences or with my employers. And I watched their confidence and I watched their knowledge and how they blended those things together. And I thought that's what I want to strive towards. So I think that's a no on, you know, mentors and how important having role models is for you and the direction you want ahead in your life.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
As far as mentoring, what I can say is, as I alluded to earlier, I've been invited back to my alma mater to speak. I've recently been invited to another panel discussion that I'm we're working out the details for. I've also mentored, you know, a folks who lead podcast like lab rat chat and three minute three hours and shared collaborative information with.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
And I led a panel discussion recently for the American Association for Laboratory Animal Science to talk about podcasting in the lab animal science industry, which is so taboo. And I think just being willing to be a pioneer in and of itself is acting as a mentor, just being unafraid, being able to be vulnerable, which, you know, you always think being vulnerable is showing weakness, but it's really showing strength. It's showing that you can be kicked down, you can be knocked over, and yet your colleagues may be calling you when they've made way more money than you and saying, Angela, why are you so happy? And so I think it's just having, like, that integrity within yourself, people will be drawn to you and they will be calling you for advice. And that's when you can really give back and be a mentor to to anybody really at any age has nothing to do with ageism. So that's what I would say. I think it's definitely important component to our industry and I think. None of us would be where we are if we didn't have someone else helping us. Usually the person we're not expecting to give us a call and give us that voice of support.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
It's funny you'd say the person you're not expecting. And, you know, there's someone that I worked for a long time ago, people who know me well, no, I did not have a good relationship with one of my former bosses. And what makes me a little crazy sometimes is things that he said popped into my head in a positive way. Right. Like we did not have a good relationship, but I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm taking advice from from this person. So it's been it's been years past that toxic relationship. And I'm getting advice from him and it kind of creeps me out. I don't like it, but I do like it. Right. And so we need to learn from all those experiences and all the people and and all those factors around you are influencing that. So during this time period where you were locked in and kind of by yourself, is there any special hobbies you took on or other interests or anything that really, you know, you accelerated your involvement over during covid?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
You know, my business model changed so much when I was trying to be fully self employed from January twenty nineteen when I found Illegal Drugs Agency and the podcast just six months after and I was going to so many conferences, I was going to, you know, society, toxicology and, you know, ACR. And I think I went to act. And one of my favorite shows, I was, I think cancer.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
There's so many canceled shows right this year. But from the year before, you know, my plan was to be on the road. And so when covid hit, of course, I had to completely rely on Zoome recordings for the podcast. And, you know, I think there have been quite a few things that I've kind of tapped back into. I think as far as hobbies go, you know, I really believe in giving back not that it's too much of a hobby, but, you know, charitable causes, thinking about biking.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Why not make it your hobby, though, right? I mean, if you can make your hobby doing good things for other people, there's advice for that. Absolutely.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
So I did host this past fall. Are girls giving where we did a drive for sanitary napkins for women in need. And it was phenomenal. We raised, you know, just 400 bucks. But hey, four hundred bucks went a really long way. We gave that to a local charity and everybody just kind of dropped off a box or whatever. And it was just for women to support women. But also, I do volunteer for Charlotte City Council's group that advises city council. It's called the Bicycle Advisory Committee. Riding bikes in the city has always been a passion of mine, particularly to be safe on the road and create more protected bike lanes. I did that in Detroit, kind of was an advocate for protected bike lanes there and kind of do the same thing here. So I've really picked up that this year during Cabaye. Lots more zoo meetings for that. But yeah, I mean, also, I like I said, I'm very passionate about animals. I happen to be vegan. So my passion for animals is only grown and nutrition as well. I try to, you know, work out what I can eat, clean what I can to avoid potential diseases that may be in my genetics. So I do a lot of cooking, but also advocating for pit bulls. So I love to support the animal shelters and walk dogs and that kind of thing. So I think just anything that you can do where you see that someone's in need, I probably get that from my mother, who's a social worker in Detroit, bless her heart, as I say in this album. But yeah, those are all really important things. You know, underage human sex trafficking. Another Detroit connection has always been one of my causes. So those are always things that are both hobbies and interests and passions that, you know, I fluctuate with my activities around, but certainly with more downtime at home, you know, something that I can kind of think about and strategize around.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
So, yeah. Wow, that's. Yeah, awesome. So do you have pit bulls?

Angela Stoyanovitch:
I do. I have a rescue. Yeah, just one.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
I don't have as many dogs as you do Chad. Well I've got I've got a collection of kids as well, but yeah it's, it keeps us busy. It keeps things interesting.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
We love you guys. Yeah. I had one I rescued from the west side of Detroit who is emaciated and as she's half American bulldog. So she's got a lot of bone and hip issues already. But yeah, they're babies like you say.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Well, Angela, thank you so much for joining me. We could have talked for hours. I know podcasting and everything else. And when when I'm vaccinated and traveling again, I'll come down to Charlotte.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Or maybe you can, you know, meet me in Hamburg at our lab there.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Who knows what they're really looking forward to. Copy. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to continuing, you know, future conversations with you. Thank you for joining in. Any any last comments or anything else you want to share with the. Yeah, sure.

Angela Stoyanovitch:
Just that since the fall, my show, Illegal Drugs podcast has really kind of been on hold trying to re strategize with different companies I was working with at the time. And now that I am fully representing biogenetics very graciously, you know, there is sort of a new strategy taking place for me on that and just want to kind of curate the right conversation. And elevate the show to benefit more, more and more people. So I definitely want to have you on illegal drugs podcast chat, and I really appreciate you having me on your show.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Thank you so much, Angela. Well, that's all for Episode seven, if you enjoyed today's episode. Be sure to subscribe an Apple podcast, Spotify or your favorite podcast app. So you never miss a conversation. If you'd like to hang out with us outside of the podcast, we have many webinars and other presentations available for your enjoyment and education. Visit biogenetics dot com to see what's coming up and how you can stay in touch. And don't forget to keep an eye out for more episodes coming soon. We're looking forward to some great guests. We'll have world renowned experts talking about rare diseases, diversity in the pharmaceutical industry, new and exciting technologies, and a conversation with a patient who has benefited from the recent tremendous developments in our industry.

Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Molecular moments would not be possible without the support of our sponsor, Biogenetics Labs Biogenetics is a global contract research organization specializing in large molecule bio analysis based in Durham, North Carolina, with labs in Hamburg, Germany, and Boston, Massachusetts. Biogenetics provides high quality bio analytical services to leading pharma and biotech companies around the world. They offer assay development, validation and sample analysis under Nanji LP, GLB and GCP, as well as GMP Quality Control Testing. If you are looking to work with a team of highly experienced scientific and kuai professionals through all phases of clinical development, look no further than biogenetics. For more information or to speak with their scientists today, visit their website at Biogenetics Dotcom.

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