Molecular Moments Episode 9: Drs. Jolly Mazumdar and Tim Chendrimada Talks Dreaming Big, Coffee Beans and Self Amplifying RNA!: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Molecular Moments Episode 9: Drs. Jolly Mazumdar and Tim Chendrimada Talks Dreaming Big, Coffee Beans and Self Amplifying RNA!: this mp4 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Announcer:
Welcome to the Molecular Moments podcast.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
In today's episode, we sat down with our guest, Dr. Julie Mazumdar and Dr. Tim Chenda Ramada, CEO and CEO of Bio. These two are the dynamic duo of the next generation of RNA therapeutics. They are pharma industry veterans who ventured out to start their own company. It's a fascinating story of belief in technology in themselves. I hope you'll enjoy our conversation as much as I did. We're talking science as scientists do. So without further ado, here is another episode of Molecular Moments. Welcome to the podcast, Jolanta, I'm delighted to have you join me today, this is my first episode with two guests, which I think is very exciting. Can we start with you giving us a few highlights from your career? And Jolli, how about you go ahead and start?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Certainly. First of all, Chad and team, thank you for this opportunity to share our story with your audience. My background. I'm a scientist by training. I grew up in India and therefore it's fair to say it was very hard for me to escape infectious diseases. And quite early on, I just fell in love with the concept of bugs and the drugs that you need to cure them. And basically it was that passion I followed and there were some other influences and we can get to it later. But it was a passion I followed. I came to the United States for my graduate studies. Initially, I stayed with infectious diseases. I did that at the University of Georgia. That's where I got my PhD. However, I also realized that for me to get into the industry, I needed to do something that was more relevant. So after my PhD, I came to University of Pennsylvania to do my postdoc, and this time I focused more on human biology, mammalian system, stem cells, cancer biology. And it kind of paid off because it was that training that got me to GSK, GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals, where I did oncology drug development. And I must say it was that foundation which ultimately helped us start Chima on bio.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Tim, how about you? That's that's a great story, Chad.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
First of all, I echo Jolley's comments. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you and share your experience with your audience. So I started my career as an agriculturist and that was primarily due to two main factors. I come from a lineage of coffee growers in a mountainous region in south India called Kuruc. So I know a little bit of how the coffee bean gets to our breakfast table. And secondly, a dad was in the animal science industry. I think these two factors primarily contributed to me pursuing a career in agriculture. However, over time I realized I could have more of an impact on my aging parents and my loved ones around me if I pursue research in medical medical sciences. So I approached a scientist at the Wistar Institute here in Philadelphia. I promise to work hard, though I did not know anything about my medical science and incidentally, that happened to be in RNA biology and that kind of laid the foundation to me pursuing therapeutics in MRN as well as vaccines.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I have to ask, you don't usually think of India generating coffee. Of course, it seems like the environment is is ripe for it. Right. But so can you get Indian coffee in the U.S.? Do you see it much?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
I do not know about it in the in the U.S., but definitely we export our coffee to the European Union and that's where it is processed. And so we see it grow.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I'd love to try some I, I love coffee and I have an espresso and I get the different pods from all over the world that I just was like, do they have one from India? Maybe someday,
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Definitely back
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
To the science. So I'm fascinated with what you guys did at GSK in your time there. Jowly, I guess you were more on the biomarker side. And Tim, you were more on the development side. Tell me generally a little bit more about your GSK career, how that prepared you for what you're doing now? It came around bio.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
It's a great question because without the training, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today at GlaxoSmithKline. I joined at a very interesting time. The reason I say this is we were at that time heavily focused on pushing a couple of skin cancer drugs to the market. When I joined, I had the privilege of getting involved in early stage clinical trials. So I joined the clinical development side. And what I got to experience in those two years is what you can deliver in a big pharma is behind you and they're committed. It was a lot of the things we were trying to achieve through these targeted therapies for melanoma. It was highly innovative. I was in the biomarker division. And what that meant is I got to you know, it was an era of personalized medicine. I got to not only develop but also execute strategies around how do we select patients such that we can with a low number of patients, we can maximize efficacy of the drug. It's all about selecting the right patient. That's what I learned. But also the regulators, they require you to come up with something known as companion diagnostic. It's to basically say that if we are claiming that this drug will be effective for such a patient, we are also obligated to develop a test which will facilitate that. Again, highly innovative project for GSK. I was leading that and, you know, seeing drug programs that you were working on, ultimately becoming drugs and hearing from the families who took those drugs or patients, rather, who took those drugs and the impact it may have used to get those e-mails. We got to meet those patients and the families that that is an ultimate privilege for a scientist. So my seven years, I was part of three such programs. And again, that was indeed the foundation for me to say, yes, I know how to make drugs. Kameron Chaser is a great technology. Let's just go for it.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
That's really cool. So were the drugs you're involved at GSK where they RNA therapeutics as well.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
They're not. They were to a small molecule. One was biologics, an antibody based drug. But my connection to what we are doing today is coming from oncology space. That time Karti just got approved. And for me it was always about but there's a void and how do we fill that void? And when I first looked at our technology, it was a very simplistic vision. It's like, OK, we know this technology can serve such and such unmet need in oncology, but we have, of course, morphed way beyond that today.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Oh, yeah, without a doubt. So, Tim, how about you talk about your role at GSK? A little bit.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So I started off as a as a bench scientist at GlaxoSmithKline. I think it was quite different, as you can imagine, Chad, from academia. It taught me a lot of things. It taught me about teamwork. You cannot develop a drug without bringing in a team and working coherently to eventually lead the project. Deleware was orders to be delivered to to the patient. The other thing that I learned is GSK. We had a very good patient inside seminar where patients used to come and share their experiences. I think that was a huge motivating factor. It made me go back to the lab, made me do good science, and ultimately the vision was to eventually help these patients, also help these aging population so that they age better in a dignified manner. And that is what drove my science.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
That's fantastic. So how do you take it from that tremendous amount of experience in a big pharma where there's all the support in the world? If you have a great idea, you can probably get money for it, right? With a little bit with a little bit of hard work. But then all of a sudden, you guys popped out of GSK, I think around twenty seventeen and start this company came around about what was really the inspiration there. You talked a little bit about it. But tell me how how do you jump off that cliff? Because that's like a cliff. That's amazing.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
For me, it was the easier part because quite a few things were happening, which all culminated to the same answer. For me, this was a time I'm talking around 2015. Then I was also finishing my MBA at Columbia Business School and we had pushed the drugs through the pipeline and things were a little slow for me at GSK. And I was wondering, OK, what is it that I want to do? So it was truly the urge of, OK, how can I challenge myself more? What should I do? And at the same time, from the business school perspective, I had started asking my question. I got this MBA, how do I use it? I mean, what's really the best way for me to use it? And at around the same time, and I was really struggling, you know, they say for change to happen, you must really be wanting for something. So I was extremely restless and I came across this opportunity that the NIH had put forth. It was what I thought was a beautiful technology which can be applied in oncology. It was in the space of RNA and they had put it up for a licensing. For me, it was a no brainer. I said, OK, we should apply for it. It took a couple of years and once and I said, we are going to get it. I quit my job.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So when he showed me this technology and it happened to be in RNA biology and I was like, this is something that could revolutionize the way we look at Amarone therapeutics, which was at that time still in its infancy. Glad to know, you know, even a common man is now realizes what the power of Amarone is. So when she showed me this technology, I was like, this is one we need to dial up. And, you know, she's my wife. I would love to join her in the journey. So I decided to quit and formed Cameron view. And it has been a very interesting and very remarkable experience so far.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Well, I can tell if you want to jump on the ride with somebody. I can tell Jowly is a great person to to partner up with. I mean, the enthusiasm is awesome and the humility is I've kind of taken aback. He said, how can you challenge yourself more? And I'm thinking, let's you start your own pharmaceutical company. Yeah, that's probably about at the top of the list. I'm not sure, you know, maybe like a pro basketball player or something like that I might have to do. But I am just absolutely blown away that you guys took this leap. I just don't even know. Where you would start with that, so you downplay it a little bit, I feel like, but to take that leap and and leave an amazing company like GSK with all that security, doing great things for human health and then quit and like, I'd probably panic the next day, right? Oh, my God. I just quit my job. What do I do now?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Yes. And of course, we have been asked this question. I quit first and Tim Tim joins. It's not that we both jumped at the same time, but nevertheless and my only answer is, I'm a selfish person. I need to be happy. As simple as that, I choose happiness. And for me, once I truly twisties love for this technology and what it could do, that's what we bet on. And it was maybe not easy, but because that's where the confidence, the courage and your training, I guess comes into. And there were a lot of things about setting up a company that we didn't know. But the one thing I really felt comfortable, I felt I knew and with Tim's support to knew how to make drugs, it was too good for us to not act on or at least personally, for me not to act on. And I was actually super happy the day I resigned.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Good for you. And and Tim, how long was it before you joined?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So I joined around the time we got the license. So once we got the license from the NIH, it was time for us to set up a lab, a small lab in the north of the city center here in Philadelphia. So it was then and the first thing we wanted to know, Chad, is whether we can make the drug, whether it is something which is viable. And once we once we showed that, then we presented it to investors. And that, for me, was a bigger challenge, because for the past 12 years, I have been talking to scientists, I've been dealing with scientists and and then all of a sudden now talking to investors at a different level for me was a learning experience.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
So it was about a year, I would say nine months to one year. We staggered that way.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
So doing these presentations, trying to get funding, trying to communicate your science in a way that's going to appeal to Wall Street types. Right. But these are big money individuals that you're looking to finance. So how does that feel?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
It was intimidating in the very beginning. Needless to say, and are a couple of maybe three, three or four presentations did require a lot more explanation than than did the other ones. So we did understand it slowly and slowly. We did understand what they were, what they wanted to know. Science was an aspect of it. It was a business side as well. And in a way, the MBA from Columbia did help us, did us and a support that we got from the Columbia community after we quit and formed this company was indeed very useful for us to set up this company and lead it from there.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
We are all going through a horrible time right through the pandemic. But in our case, that was kind of the silver lining. Explaining our story to the community became much easier in 2017 and 18 when we are trying to talk about MRSA, not to me and stuff amplifying RNA people really didn't realize. And now we see the excitement or that nod. Oh, OK, that's what you guys are doing. So things have evolved. And of course we have matured and our commitment have grown. It's not been an easy ride, but it's been a fun. Right.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Tell me about time around the company. Where are you at now? How big is it where you are with your your pipeline development and your and your different products?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
So the way we started, we knew that there is this great technology we're sitting with, but that was on paper. We had to first make sure that it's indeed what it promises to be. And the only commitment we had was just to push it, push it, push it. We therefore did not really have the luxury of waiting for institutional investors and we started bootstrapping. So initially we kept the company small. As Tim mentioned, we got a small lab space in Philadelphia and we wanted to address very simple but extremely critical questions like can we even make this? Because for it to be a drug, you have to first make it. Do we understand it? And we did so for about two years. And then B and during this process, we started getting advisors and we started building a board. And then that brought in some money and and before, you know, you know, like first quarter 2020, like last year, we were just so confident about this technology. We said it's a great time for us to now announce a pipeline. And it's a platform technology.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
It truly has broad applicability. And the best part is it's a very modular. So if he were to partner with strategic partners, you know, each partner could do whatever they wanted to do with it. Some could say we want to make accessible vaccine. Some can say, oh, we want to go after the very, you know, exclusive rare disease. Is and so we said, let's keep pushing this technology, we announced a pipeline, our commitment right now is oncology, cancer vaccines, infectious diseases and rare diseases. We were not thinking of infectious diseases, slash covid vaccine, but then once we truly understood what this pandemic in know the havoc it's going to take, we said you have to act because we know our technology can be applied there so that today we are much better positioned to really start pushing or thinking about clinical development, entering the clinic, morphing this company from preclinical stage to clinical. And now also we're starting to get serious about investment, talking to the big institutional investors and expanding the build a team. And we plan to build further.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
How many employees do you have today?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
So right now we have a team of eight scientists, but we have a much broader, you know, behind the scenes network of consultants, advisors and service providers. It's it's biomorphs.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, well, someday you're going to look back. You're gonna have a company of five hundred people or something like that. All those days only had eight people. Those were the good days, you know, and dreaming big and you know, and so I'm sure that's, you know, it's something exciting to look forward to.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
You know, we started off with two just joking. And then, you know, we got the right support. And I I'm thankful to all our advisors and are on our board who believed in us and just who basically laid the foundation for the growth of Kameron. I'm glad we are now at eight scientists, I think. And the work that we are doing that directly impacts the society, directly impacts. And we have also started a new board called the Accessible Medicine Board, whose major goal is to look at other developing countries and see if they can transfer our technology there so that they can make their own MMR vaccine in indigenously build a modern vaccine, that they can distribute it to their own to to the people of their country and not necessarily depend upon others, which is currently a challenge for developing countries, especially when it comes to go with 19 vaccines. So I'm very proud of that effort and I hope that materializes and it'll give us an opportunity to showcase our platform worldwide.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Wow. I mean, the story just gets better and better, right? I mean, it's amazing science, an amazing mission helping the Third World. I love this. So I've been really anxious to discuss the a couple of topics, but understanding the science. So it's kind of like, OK, this is what I've been waiting for, is to have you explain to me what is the self amplifying RNA in the in the camera encased self amplifying RNA. So let's hear about it. I want to understand what's going on.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So The Chaser, which stands for Chimaira NKE Self, amplifying RNA is nothing but a nanoparticle that in cases a single piece of RNA, the shell around it is coming from a different viral family. The RNA is coming from a different viral family. So it's in a way, in a sense it's a Chimaira. So it is Chimaira and case to self amplifying RNA. The beauty of this day is once it gets into the cell, this single piece of RNA is delivered and this RNA self amplifies itself. So a single copy of RNA eventually leads to around 100000 or more copies. So in a sense, what therapeutically? We're now looking for more vaccine, which is a single small lower dose of this vaccine, gives you a much more amplified response.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
So, Tim, how is that different from the RNA vaccines that are out now that utilize the ribosome to produce more?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
It is the same mechanism, but our dose is much lower. So from a single dose of Amarna, you get much more amplified response because of our technology. So when you're looking at some of the companies that are at 100 micrograms of vaccine, we are seeing efficacy at ten nanograms. So 10000 less. How does that impact vaccines? Is a single batch of our vaccine can vaccinate many more people than the current vaccines that are in the market. Furthermore, this is a technology can be stored at four degrees. That is the normal refrigerator which helps in the supply and distribution chain off of vaccine across the globe. Not necessarily. That does not need the ultra cold temperatures that we currently need.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Yeah, you asked how are we different from other Amarone if we think of them as a linear technology? End of the day, a body needs protein to have a response and this protein is formed because of RNA. So other technologies are linear. There you could think of one Amarone giving rise to one protein molecule. We are self amplifying RNA. One RNA that we deliver ends up giving hundred thousand protein. Killed, and that is what allows us to call ourselves a low dose technology because we don't have to do is as much to get to the required amount of protein. And then combined with some of the other factors to mention, first of all, it's a low dose technology, easy to make, easy to store. It is low cost, but most importantly, it's highly flexible. We can put a lot of genes in and out. It's a flexible technology that can be adapted across therapeutic areas, and that's what makes it very powerful.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So what you're seeing right now in the Code 19 space is the development of new variants which which are causing more deleterious effects than the original ones. Our technology helps develop a super cool with our next generation covid-19 vaccine where you not only have the original antigen, but also you can embed within the single strand of RNA, the other antigens as well, so that the patient gets exposed to those antigens and produces those antibodies against the new variants as well. So that flexibility is given by the self amplifying property of the LTTE as a technology.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah. So what makes it self amplify gets to replicate. How does that part work? Because that's the part I really don't understand. I'm a I'm a chemist and not a biologist, so I may be missing something.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So within the single strand of RNA that is delivered, there are genes that encode for protein complex called RNA dependent RNA polymerase complex. So once that polymerase complex is made within the cell, it then binds to the promoter regions of the RNA and makes so we not only deliver the RNA, but we deliver the machinery that is responsible for converting that RNA into the antigen.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
And in its nature, Chad nature, its very powerful nature, has a small family of viruses or a family of small viruses called alpha virus. They inherently do this. They have what is known as self amplifying RNA because they are so tiny they can't afford to have a lot of capability. And it's really it's the scientists. Over time, they have exploited that particular property to start clinical applications. And what chimaira what we are now doing is taking it a step further to really how we make it is so different that our intellectual properties really around that we have borrowed something that nature at all for it and made it smarter and smarter.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
You said this technology came from the NIH initially. What's kind of the back story on the development of this technology?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
What we understand is that apparently due to some budget sequestration issues, some departments had to close down and these technologies coming out of those labs were put for licensing under a program where true to the spirit of advancing science, they had allocated some of these technologies to for startup companies. That's how they wanted to promote scientific growth. So this technology under that program could not, let's say, have gone to an established company. You had to be a startup. Less than five employees, less than five million dollars raised. We fit that bill. We founded the company just so we could be eligible to get the license. And we got
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
It at super cool. So I know Joe Biden listens to my podcast. Maybe other people didn't know that, but that I hope, Joe, you know, when he hears this, that he'll think about funding the NIH and keeping these programs going, because these are these are the sorts of things that come out of it. But I I like the story, though, that it came out of the NIH, you know, you know, losing some funding and then it kind of becomes this, you know, program in limbo. I love that you guys could pick that up. I think it's a perfect way to to sort of make these things happen. So that's that's cool. I mean, where are you at in your vaccine development timeline, in your in your plans here to to get this thing to market?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
So we have finished critical proof of concept studies in mice. And then now we are looking to do safety toxicity studies, which is an essential requirement for the regulators to say, yes, now you can go into human. What does our time timeline we expect to have a vaccine, our vaccine in the market next year, later half of next year. But, you know, for us, that works because right now we really don't know how the vaccine regimen is going to turn up. I mean, do we need annual vaccines? Secondly, we are talking a pandemic. There's a global population under question and there's so many countries that do not have vaccines. And I think the thirdly and the most important aspect, in addition to what Tim had mentioned earlier, this, we want these countries to be self-reliant and we are very infrastructure friendly. But most importantly, you know, we want to be thinking of the next pandemic or the next epidemic. We want to think beyond covid and does our technology. Fit in that category of a robust, transformative vaccine platform. Absolutely. Therefore, as we progress, we don't get distracted by who is there, who's not there. It's more like think of today, but think of the longer term prospect as well.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
What the covid-19 and modern vaccines have shown, Chad, is that Imani is here to stay. It's a viable option. Now, you look to expand this further, and that is what Cameron is trying to do as well. Around Hepatitis B, around tuberculosis can be around influenza. Can we know how A, more potent and reliable vaccine. And I has shown that and that is what we want to take to forward is to develop the next generation of vaccines and also be ready, should go forward. But should another pandemic arise, we should be ready to go and modernly has shown the way. Yeah.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
And I will add one other thing, that while this vaccine effort is ongoing, we are also heavily focused on developing our pipeline when it comes to oncology and rare diseases. We do not intend to be a vaccine company or one vaccine company, but rather a company with a highly transformative and useful RNA technology so we can truly maximize the impact.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Do you have any partnerships that you can talk about with any any of the companies?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
We don't have any executed yet, but we are under several discussions and that's the hope that we will secure a partnership sooner than later because we'll lead as we go to clinical development. We definitely need partners
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
To develop a kind of clinical development where the people would be would be more than a challenge. So absolutely, that's exciting. You know, I mean, we're obviously this isn't a video that you guys can see how much I'm smiling. This is really, really amazing. And I feel like in a year I'm going to say go back and listen to my podcast of these guys. This is you know, this is on CNN. Now, you know, you'll be talking to Anderson Cooper and Chad Briska. Oh. So I'm really excited for you. And this is really cool. Are there other diseases outside of coronavirus type diseases that these vaccines can apply to?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Absolutely. As Tim mentioned, we are already starting to think about influenza. We're starting to think about tuberculosis. You know, if you think of global impact, World Health Organization has a whole host of infectious agents for which there's really no vaccine and they're actively looking at our technology because of its simplicity, really allows us to tackle many of those. And again, depending on the market we are looking at, there are others like hepatitis B HPV. So it all depends. But simply put, is there an opportunity beyond covid-19? Yes, this tremendous opportunity. And we are mindful and are going to go after it.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
It's fantastic. And by the way, I was going to mention that I agree with you. I think while I'd like to think that in a year, year and a half that were passed covid around the world, I don't think we will be. And, you know, I think back a year ago when I sort of made my predictions as a, you know, citizen epidemiologist who knows nothing. Right. I'm not an epidemiologist. I didn't think we'd be where we're at today. I thought we'd be in a better position than we are today. So I think in a year, year and a half, when you guys have your vaccine on the market, there's still going to be a huge market for it. So why is it so? I'm sure a lot of listeners, this has gone back to some notes I took. But why is it that your vaccine is stable at Fauci and other vaccines are not stable except frozen and and very frozen conditions?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
It's how we make it. It's inherent to the technology. Other MRN vaccines, you will hear of them as LNP lipid nanoparticle. They use lipid to stabilise their RNA. RNA is very labor. If you do not stabilise, the body is going to chop it and you won't have an effect. But as soon as you bring in the lipid in a storage does become an issue. If you see the vaccines that are stored at lower temperature, usually they have some connection to viruses. And we believe because again, how we make ah, it's it's a nonlinear technology. That's what's allowing us to create stable products. And it's a very sturdy, sturdy particles based on what we're see.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So the protein coat around the RNA, Chad, is coming from an inert virus. So that protein code is pretty stable and that partly contributes for the stability of the vaccine.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Is it an adenovirus?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
It's not an ideal virus. It is coming from a very different viral family. And yeah, and we were fortunate enough that this did show tremendous. I think right now we are seeing much greater than three months at four degrees and they are quite stable
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
And be able to do Freestar. We put it in ultra cold and take it out. Ultracal, take it out. And it's just it holds steady and. The reason I mention it, because in development, females envision a situation where we make a big batch and we have to do long term storage, and it's only when it's time to supply, we go into four degrees C. And, you know, the data that we see really supports that theory. If we have to do that, we can't do it.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Wow. You guys, this is this is super cool. I just I'm so excited for you guys and what you're doing and excited to see this technology come along. So absolutely wonderful. I have to ask you about our mutual friend, Afshin Molavi. How did you get hooked up with that guy? But also how fortunate have you to get hooked up with that guy? Right. I feel the same way.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Absolutely. So as I mentioned initially, it was, you know, Tim and me largely trying to secure investment, etc. It was indeed that reason we we dug deeper into our network and then somebody we had a mutual connection. That's how we got introduced to Afshin. And we had one chat and then a second chat. And by the third chat, we were quite we just knew it was a fit. And he he's been amazing. I mean, through his connections, how how we keep the morale of the company high. Every aspect his has been has been wonderful.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Yeah. I do want to share a story that I hear when Charlie did talk to him initially and he was interested. But as you can imagine, Afshin, a very dynamic person, but at the same time a very, very busy person. So he came back the following week and said, you have a great technology, guys, but I do not have the time. So unfortunately, I will not be able to help you or be part of Kameron. And this happened while we were going to the grocery store. So we had the kids back and they were all having fun. And we are we were we felt sad, deflated at this point because we knew he could he could make an impact. And at that point we thought for five minutes and I told him back, please call him back and let's have a meeting again. So we did the job he did and somehow was able to convince him to join the board. And that started the next Kamaran bio and a more successful Cameroun while
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
He is sold on you guys new technology. And obviously he's he's the one, you know, introduce me to you and convince me that, yes, this is the next thing in RNA therapeutics and RNA delivery, and I'm super excited about it. You talked a little bit. Well, she talked a lot about the future, came around and some of your thoughts going forward, thinking back, where do you think you might take the company down the road? What are what are some of your other future plans maybe that we didn't touch on, if any?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
I'm driven and committed to one thing, make products, sit in the market. But as you can appreciate, as that happens, that can't happen without company growth and how we end up looking, whether we just see private and become a big company or we go public. We are one thing, Kameron is and all of us are unified in that spirit. We are we are opportunity driven. We do not discount anything. We give everything considerable attention or whatever attention it deserves. Bottom line is, we will let our drugs dictate how we grow. And as execs and the board, we are committed to making good drugs.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
So what we have here is a very, very tiny nanoparticle with enormous potential. So that covered with a oncology vaccine and the rare disease, we are just touching the tip of the iceberg at this point. There's a lot more to be done. That is exciting for me that the scientists at Kameron are excited about the upcoming things, the things, and now that vaccines are an option. We are looking at looking at other countries as well, like countries in countries in the African continent where you can develop some vaccines that to prevent some of the diseases there. So the potential is unlimited and that is where that is how I see Kameron progress develop this technology further, have a good pipeline and make an impact. I think that's where we can make an impact to the society, come up with novel drugs, come up with innovative drugs, and that is what we want to do
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
And accessible drugs
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
And accessible drugs so that lewdly
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Everybody can access.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I love that that that means a lot to me as well. And I've had so many conversations with different individuals over the last few months talking about accessibility to drugs, whether it's in Central America or if it's in Africa. I have several good friends with the Gates Foundation and different different organizations that are that are working on accessible drugs. And it's super exciting
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
And, you know, including this country. Actually, we should not discount, including what we think are the Western select Western markets. Because if you look at right now the way gene therapy is shaping up, those the cost is it's. Prohibitive. And that's where I mean, at some point, Piers, they will they will put their foot down and these are critical stakeholders. So it's you know, when we say access and there's inequity everywhere. And so, again, it depends how that's where. You know how smart, Abbi, what's our strategy? Because each therapeutic area has its own strategy and we are just trying to be as attentive as possible.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Can you deliver other drugs and other things other than RNA and these nanoparticles?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Theoretically, yes, we have tried we could potentially deliver antibodies. And one of the things that this technology can do, it can direct the RNA or an antibody to a particular tissue of interest. So we could be tagging along an antibody to actually deliver it to that system. So that is something that we can do. Again, as I said, we are just starting to understand this platform. RNA is definitely leading the front, leading, leading it. And hopefully the other antibodies are maybe even small molecules at some point will be the future of Kameron.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Oh, that's cool. I'm dreamin along with you. So so that's super cool. One of the things that we talk a lot about in the molecular moments is mentoring in the mentors that you had. Would love to have you touch on some of that. You talked about folks at Columbia and Afshin and other people. Are there any interesting mentorship stories that you have? And how how do you mentor the people that are coming into your organization? I'm interested in that as well.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
So for me, you know, it's like pay it forward. It is. Pay it forward. I don't have a mentor because as you know, as we grow, evolve and mentors would evolve. My mentor is a hybrid chimeric creature because I draw inspiration from many different people. And I've had the privilege of working with really good to people my philosophy or mentorship that it comes to that a new team that you're building, first of all, a very pro-growth you know, I think it's stifling if you're in an organization that you can't grow. And my my personal motto is you need to have an environment where you're valued. That is something I value. So treat everybody with respect, feel valued, because if our team is not motivated, it's not going to happen. You know, they should feel excited about they should be wanting to come to Kameron and wanting to do what they're doing. And that happens when they know there's a supportive environment with this respect where we value and what I tell my team is don't be afraid to fail because there is no such thing as fail. Figure it out. It's science. You know, if something doesn't work out, we just have to figure it out. We have to revisit the question. That's my just keep encouraging. And, you know, I do it again for a selfish reason, because if they're happy, that makes me happy. That's how I operate.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Yeah. Pretty much on the set in the same side here, Chad. No, I don't have a mentor in mind because I have learnt a lot from so many people. I know we I went to Columbia because I was there for some lecture and I saw the lecture and saw the scholars there and saw that they could. That is the way the knowledge they could impart on me that was phenomenal. So I don't see a particular, but I don't see a particular person as a mentor. I see life as being a mentor for me. I learn from my from my colleagues. I have learned from my reports as well the stories that they tell me. Those are motivating factors. And those that's how I lead. I lead my life as an example.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Wow. Yeah. You guys, you're just you're so inspiring. I think that's that's fantastic. Jowly. Your humility comes across. You know, you keep talking about I'm selfish about my happiness and I'm selfish because I want to do more for others. And I'm selfish because I want people to have a great work environment. And it's just it's a it's a beautiful thought. So thank you for that. It's just great. So I have a couple of fun questions I want to leave you guys with or ask you guys before before I leave you so jowly. And Tim, I'm guessing that when you were growing up, you didn't you didn't think about, hey, when I grow up and to be a CEO and a CEO of a pharmaceutical company with life changing medicine. So what were your dreams as as children?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Ok, I didn't like studies. I was you know, for me it was more about have fun saying Don's love to travel. Got to do a lot of that just by virtue of, you know, what job my dad had. He was in business development. Those are the things that really mattered to me more. But then, you know, and it was time to go to college. There was a particular impact I didn't discuss further that really became critical to my mom is a medical technologist. And as a kid, I did talk about India. I would go to her at the hospital. I would see those long line of poor people waiting for some free medicine anyway, so when it is really time for me to pull my socks up and decide, I said, wow, I want to make drugs. That's something I've always wanted to do. In early years. I got influenced, didn't think about it, but when it was time for me to make a decision and after that it was quite linear, as you heard. PhD postdoc.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Yeah, yeah. Georgia postdoc at Howard Hughes. You know, working at GSK. It's all, you know, nobody start your own pharma company. Yeah, no big deal.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
And I will tell you one thing, though, Chad, you asked me. Right. See today. But think of it. Not at all. And actually, even today, I don't I don't look at it that way. I look at it as doing something I truly love with the people that I love. And I mean it.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
I wanted to always be a sports sportsperson. Yeah. Like anyone else. But in sports and in field hockey, in fact, you know, field hockey, it's a different here in the in India. It is a big deal.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I think cricket and I think India. But yeah,
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Cricket to cricket. I did play cricket, but field hockey was my passion. I did play for my state. It was after my 12th grade that I seriously contemplated what I wanted to do. Agriculture did bring me back and that kind of drove me, drove my career initially.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
That's awesome. OK, so I'm going to ask you one more one more fun question. Boy, I can't imagine you guys have time to travel, but but everything you're doing. But as travel opens up, what's in your travel bucket list and why?
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Australia.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Australia.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Yeah, Australia, I think that's one continent I have not visited so far. And the next one will be the northern part of Africa. Chad, these are two areas I see. I see. And I just admire that these places, Jolie and I have traveled quite a lot and we we love it. She has a passion for travel. I have a passion for trying out different cuisines. I think that combination works for us. And that's what we did before we started having kids. And then, you know what happens after that? You go through a period of no travel first and then. Yeah. And another pandemic as well. So definitely I would love to travel, go to Australia, at least for me and the northern part of Africa.
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Yeah, I'm just open to travel. I really need to travel because that's good for my brain. So I'll go wherever there's a chance.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
Nice. Nice. Oh that's fantastic. Well, guys, thank you so much for being with us. And on the podcast today, this was absolutely it was brilliant, inspiring to hear your story. I just I couldn't wish you more success because your success is going to be I mean, it's to benefit the world, right? I mean, the whole world will succeed if you guys succeed. And that is that is an awesome, awesome thing that you're taking on and moving forward with. So I hope you're successful and thank you. Any final parting comments before we before we part?
Dr. Jolly Mazumdar:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity to share our story. You know, we could use good wishes. So thank you for that, too. You're welcome. We have a tough road ahead, but very exciting. And, uh, we promise everybody to give it our best.
Dr. Tim Chendrimada:
Yeah, same here. Thank you again. I'm glad we could share our story with you and your listeners. I hope someone draws inspiration from us and start something of their own, which is unique and it is just transformational and have an impact on our society and on our world. So thank you again. And we hope to come back at some point and I hope you invite us back.
Dr. Chad Briscoe:
I would love to have you back. Oh, my gosh. Because you'll be famous next time I have you back. So so that'll be really, really cool. But thank you so much. And that's all for this episode of Molecular Moments. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify or your favorite podcast app. So you never miss a conversation. If you'd like to hang out with us outside of the podcast, we have many webinars and other presentations available for your enjoyment and education. Visit biogenetics dot com to see what's coming up and how you can stay in touch. And don't forget to keep an eye out for more episodes coming soon. We're looking forward to some great guests will have world renowned experts talking about rare diseases, diversity in the pharmaceutical industry, new and exciting technologies, and a conversation with a patient who has benefited from the recent tremendous developments in our industry. Molecular moments would not be possible without the support of our sponsor, Biogenetics Labs Biogenetics is a global contract research organization specializing in large molecule bio analysis based in Durham, North Carolina, with labs in Hamburg, Germany, and Boston, Massachusetts. Biogenetics provides high quality bio analytical services to leading pharma and biotech companies around the world. They offer assay development, validation and sample analysis under Nanji LP, JLP and GCP, as well as GMP quality control testing. If you are looking to work with a team of highly experienced scientific and kuai professionals through all phases of clinical development, look no further than biogenetics. For more information or to speak with their scientists today, visit their website at Biogenetics Dotcom.
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